For me, on my Flair 2012 the sensor was stuck internally in up position. No tone and you could only move it up and down at the door. I removed the sensor and put it back in. Worked again.
Beiträge von JAndersB
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Also two Honda Nc750, one 2016 NC 750S DCT and one NC 750X DCT 2023 fits with no problems and with screen and mirrors on. 230 kg and 226 kg.
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We spent almost 3 months at 1500m or more above sea level, with the need for daily bleeding at mentioned point. Now since 6 days at normal level problem is gone. Very strange with a non pressurised system....
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Hello Anders,
Auf 1800 Metern liegt der Siedepunkt für Wasser bei nur 93,5 ºC.
Wenn wir auch die Wirkung der Saugpumpe im Ausgleichsbehälter hinzufügen, wird der Druck des in die Pumpe eintretenden Kühlmittels noch weiter reduziert.
Dadurch wird der Durchfluss von der Pumpe verringert.
Die verlorene Zirkulationsgeschwindigkeit des Kühlmittels führt dazu, dass heißeres Kühlmittel den Boiler verlässt und in die Pumpe eintritt als andere für die Beheizung des Wohnbereichs erforderliche Gegenstände.
Der niedrige Absolutdruck des heißen Kühlmittels verursacht Kavitation.
Kavitation in der Pumpe kann zu kleinen Luftblasen im Kühlmittel führen, die sich ansammeln und abscheiden und Lufteinschlüsse im System verursachen.
Dies ist meine Theorie, basierend auf Physik und Erfahrung mit dem Alde-System.
At 1800 meter the boiling point for water is only 93,5 ºC.
If we also add the effect of the suction pump in the expansion tank, the pressure of the coolant entering the pump will be reduced even further.
This will reduce the flow from the pump.
The lost circulating speed of the cooland will result in hotter coolant leaving the boiler and entering the pump then othervice neccecary to heat the living area.
The low absolute pressure of the hot coolant will cause cavitation.
Cavitation in the pump can mic in small air bubbles in the coolant that will collect and separate, causing air pockets in the system.
This is my theory, based on physics and experience with the Alde system.
Hej Michael (igen)!
I have been winter camping with Alde systems at 1800-2000m for many years. Never had any problems with air entering the system. Many, many other Alde based womos around without any problems.
Interesting teory but not valid I think. To have to the bleed the system twice a day at one point 20m away from the pump, with many highpoints to pass on the way, not collecting any air, is a clear indication of something else. I forgot one day and got a total circulation block..
There is a highpoint with went at left sofa back rest (never any air), then pipe goes down under the floor and via engine exchanger up at drivers window, over the dashboard, passing where air is collecting and downwards again via passanger window to under the floor. If I forget to bleed, a little air can go down flow to went at right side sofa back rest. So somewhere on this stretch the air is coming in. And no fluid leaking out!
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Hello JAndersB ,
this has nothing to do with the 1800 meter altitude, You will have a leak somewhere in the system.
Adding liquid: Ensure that the vehicle is standing level, and check that the bleeder screws and drain cocks are closed. Release the plastic nut on the circulation pump, located on the expansion vessel, and lift out the pump. Pour the glycol mixture slowly into the expansion vessel, using a watering can. When the system is being filled, air pockets may form, depending on how the pipesystem has been installed. A good indication that there is air in the system is when the heat only travels a few metres along the pipe from the boiler, despite the fact that the circulation pump is operating. To make refilling and bleeding easier, we recommend using the Alde filling pump which quickly both fills and bleeds the system automatically.
enclosed an Alde 3010 description also applies to the 3020 system............. Alde_3010_Service-Eng.pdf
and Filling with a filling and venting pump
Lg. Hermann
Hi, system is in use full time since september. No air in the system. I know these systems very well and have big experince expanding, change fluid etc.
In january it started sucking in air.. There is no leak, fluid level constant. Long discussions with Alde direct did not help,.
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Hi,
we have been with our Nibi Flair i800 in the alps the whole winter. Arrived at 1800 m in january. After 1 day we noticed air in the Alde system, at the evacuation vent located at the right corner of the front window.
After that I have had to empty air from that location on a daily basis. I have tried to block the inlet for the Alde automatic air vent, no result. I have also discussed with Alde in lenght but nowbody understand it.
Any ideas? How can the Alde system suck in air without any loss of liquid? Why is air entering the system more at 1800 m height than at sea level, there is no differnt pressure in an Alde system than outside?
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Update: I insulated the old outside openings and made closeable new one into the interior, for winter usage. Still left some small openings to the outside.
At -25 c did was not sufficient. Too cold around the compressor so bad efficiency and too hot in the fridge.
Will insulate and close off all external vents even more fore winter usage.
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Ich musste das thermostat etwas niedriger stellen. Sehr kalt im beide. Aussen 29C im Gràndola.
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Danke für diese Umbauinformationen. Bitte berichte weiter, auch über Kosten etc. und Stromverbrauch.
Wir stehen auch seit einer Wochen in Portugal, bei Tavira und unser Absorber läuft so bei Stufe 3, manchmal 4 und hat -12 bis -14 TK und um die 8 - 9 Grad , am Tage natürlich. Aber es ist immer gut, Alternativen zu kennen
Christian
Das Vitrifrigo mit 10% rabatt wegen inzahlung von alte dometic koster 1640€ beim Parracho im Sintra.
Es ist jetz beim aussentemperatur von 26-27C am 3/4 von max. Endlich kaltes bier, 5-6C im kühlschrank, -10C i gefrierfach so alles gut.
Unserem Dometic könnte nur 12 bis 15 im kühlschrank troz grosse flamme. Und als AES 12V ist immer das 170W zu venig. Ich habe mehrere absorbers gehabt, immer schlecht aber besser als diese.
Ich schätze 60 A pro tag ob als heiss als jetz. Ich habe 304 Ah lithium (bald 608) und 680W solar.
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Danke für das Teilen des Umbaus. Bin mal auf Deine Erfahrungen gespannt. Was macht ihr mit der Lücke, die der Backofen hinterlassen hat? Und wie habt Ihr das mit der Hinterlüftung gelöst?
Grüße,
Ralf
Hallo,
wir kaufen später eine microwelleofen. Wir haben ein paar holzplatten montiert und alles dicht nach innen gemacht mit fensterdichtungen.
Auch mehrere holzarbeiten später, dass micro ist nicht so hoch.
Lüftung nach aussen.
Kein gerausch, schwer zu sagen ob es lauft oder nicht.
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Seit einem Monat kämpfen wir in Portugal mit (üblicher) schlechter Kühlung im Wohnmobil-Absorptionskühlschrank. -6 im Gefrierfach und +15 im Kühlschrank...
Die Reisemobilfirma in Sintra hatte genau den passenden Kompressorschrank (Vitrifrigo dp150i). Zeit für den Austausch allerdings erst nächsten Donnerstag. Geschätzte Zeit mindestens 8 Stunden, vielleicht bis Tag 2.
In 2,5 Stunden trennten wir 12 V, Gas und 230 V, rissen die alte 190-Liter-Kühlschrank- und Ofenkombination heraus und haben die neue installiert. Auf dem Parkplatz außerhalb von Parracho. Mit Blick auf die Burg von Sintra. Dass es +28 Grad waren, machte es etwas einfacher. Aber nur ein bisschen.
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Looks great the System. Which ist it?
How ist it to handle the outside frame.
I drive my Scooter (250kg) automatik, with the engine in. Not bad, but not so comortable.
The bicycle holder I put out
Sawiko. Pretty impressed. No problem at all to winch in and out.
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They are a Honda NC750S dct with Shad system, so official weight 235 kg but this shurely 240kg. And a Yamaha MT-07, around 190 kg. 2 sawiko rails. I do not have the weight but pretty heavy. With rails, chairs, tables etc I guess around 470 kg in garage.
Wheighted the womo the other day. Fully loaded with a lot of toys for 3 months in Portugal, full water tank, 2 persons (84 and 63 kg). Only 40L diesel and empty gas tank but 2 full p11. So 170 kg more will be added closer to front than rear axel.
Front axel: 2220 kg, max 2500 kg
Rear axel: 4740 kg, max 5250 kg
Total: 6960 kg, max 7490 kg.
So pretty OK 😀
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Hi all,
Real driving test done. Despite empty diesel and gas tank in the front no different driving experience compared to before. Could not tell that the bikes are there. Not weighted yet but plenty free axel loads to play with 😀
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Kann mal jemand von den Flair-Besitzern ein Bild von der Rahmenverlängerung/-absenkung machen und einstellen?
Grund meiner Bitte: Dethleffs gibt "nur" 250kg als Flächenlast für die Heckgarage an. Die Rahmenverlängerung/-absenkung ist aber optisch gleich wie bei den anderen Herstellern, die Womos auf Iveco Daily anbieten.
An Pfingsten hatte ich unser Boot (3,5t und 140kg Stützlast) dran und habe mich nicht getraut, zusätzlich einen 160kg-Roller mitzunehmen. Jetzt würde ich gerne mal die Rahmen vergleichen und sehen, warum anderen Hersteller bis 500kg zulassen.
Gruß Axel
I think the main reason for 250-500 kg in garage is due to not have to make a floor that can take a very high point load, the chassis seems strong enough. Also to avoid that people overload rear axel. NiBis approach pointing this out as the only restriction is more logical though if you combine it with some thoughts to spread the load and/or strenghten the floor surface.
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A LPG tank with 120 l only fits 96 l because of safety precaurions. There is an automatic shut off at 80%..
I also do not care about norm weight, it was only to give you an idea about the whats en whens.
I do not believe, that the rear structure of a Flair chassis will hold 1200 kg. „ A friend of a friend …..“? Can you prove it written?
I habe been in business with Niesmann since 1987, I have driven them until 2021 and I think I know a little bit about Flairs.
But- it is your camper, so do what you like.
But now you are nit picking. Yes, Lpg has a shut of - and my weight is higher after christmas than before.....
I do not need to prove anything. I have from several personally known sources that NB has no limit on the garage (see also sticker in garage) and if an onkel to my friend, a Morelo dealer, was a technichan at Meyer and involved in the test, it is also pretty reliable.
You can buy an approved heckträger with a hefty weight in itself and load it with 250 kg very far behind the rear axel , in addition to fully loaded garage. You can put a 3000kg trailer on the hook attached to the garage structure. I have 1800 kg spare. I need to get the front lighter.
So once again, I am not worried at all. But thank you for the input.
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Two persons, full gas tank and full dieseltank will max out front weight. 300 kg water and 2 bikes will leave close to 1000kg spare on the rear and possible make front with some spare, as now when I drive it as weighted and without any issues.
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I do think, your calculations are a little bit offset. And you now don‘t have a toilet installed? And no batteries?
The Oyster is approx. 11 kg, the TEC29 is approx. 44 kg..
Everything you took out, except the batteries is somewhere in the middle of the Flair. So this affects both axle weights.
The LPG tank only fills 100 l, which is around 55 kg. Also placed in the middle of the Flair.
Your bikes, the sawikos total up to approx 480 kg behind the rear axle, lifting up and decreasing weight on the front axle.
The correct way to weigh a motorhome conform ECE regulations is
with driver (75 kg)
With fully filled water tank
With 90% filled fuel tank
With 100% filled lpg tank
About 2 years ago, we had someone in this forum with a daily chassis 7,49t with a smart in the rear. The daily was almost undriveable because of the extra weight in the rear., did not run straight on even motorways and last but not least was returned to the factory.
As your Flair is an older model, you should also check if your rims and your tyres have enough payload.
Imho you are overloading the garage and the structure.
Regards
Elbert
Separett toilet, much better and no weight. 23kg of Lithium, same Ah as 6x44kg AGM, so all 3 original could go out. Batteries located behind rear axel , all other items close to it. Gas tank 120 L.
I am more interested in actual weight than "norm" weight. And tires are for 7,49 tonnes. And these Iveco structures has been tested with 1200 kg in the garage as I wrote earlier. And are approwed for heavy trailers and a behind platform carrying 250 kg......
So I am not at all worried about the loads. Especially when you see platforms BEHIND front drive 3500 kg womos and kastenwagen with huge loads etc. I have 1800 kg available on the rear axel and as I already wrote, need to get the front lighter. Perfect.
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Hello JandersB,
in my opinion you have to check the weight again with your motorbikes loaded in the rear garage to have the actual informations on the front and rear axle.
Just for make sure that the heavy weight in the garage do not lift up your front axle.
cheers
Jürgen
Yes. See also answer to Elbert.
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With all that weight, approx 480 kg behind the rear axle, could it be that your steering wheel feels pretty „light“?
Regards
Elbert
I have not driven it yet. But considering the weights measured at registration it is almost good to have some more weight in the rear. 1800 spare while front only has 300 spare, whithout driver and passanger.. I took out appr. 200 kg before in terms of superheavy AGM batteries, very heavy electrical porceillan toilet with tank, Oyster disc and Tec-29 generator so basically only 1 bike in the garage....Also 120L propane will put more load on the front. I will weight the car again later.
