Is owning and "Keeping" a motorhome in Germany legally possible for a non-resident?

    For those who did not read my introduction, here is some context for my question.

    I live in South of Ireland. This is not at all Liner country. The reasons are various:

    There is no tradition of this kind of vehicle here and I know of only one rather new liner, owned by a person in the motor trade. Sometimes you might see an old bus or American motorhome registered here but usually that would be of a low value.

    We do not have the roads or facilities for large liners.

    Import costs of, for examp[e, a used car include a vehicle registration tax at 13%, which will be charged on a figure decided by the taxing office, and unknowable in advance. The taxing office may take the purchase invoice, then add 13%, and then again 13% on top of the now 113% value arrived at. A car purchased for 200K becomes 226K and then quickly 255.380K. They may also decide to increase the baseline for their calculations to any number above the Invoice value, arriving at any fanciful number they wish.

    The final, and insurmountable problem is that insurance above a value over 150K or over 7t is seemingly impossible to achieve here. (I am envious of your discussions here about insurance products available to the German market! Many options available from a variety of providers and the prices look very reasonable to me)

    So rather than give up my liner project I decided to research the possibility of owning/registering a car in another nearby EU state.

    In France, there is a possibility of using a simple and inexpensive company structure known as Societé Civile for this purpose.

    But, as it is most likely that I will find a Liner that suits my purpose in Germany, then there arises the complication of importing to and registering in France. Not too difficult, but an amount of french bureaucracy to engage with.

    So this is a long introduction again to the question in the title!: Is it possible for a resident of another EU country to own and keep a car in Germany?

    As it happens, Frankfurt Hahn would be very easy destination for me to commute to from where I live, so the logistics on that side seem possible.

    Any ideas or feedback are welcome.

    I have some other questions on the project but I will post them as separate threads.

    Thank you for this forum where I learn a lot while keeping quiet!

    Irish Rover

    Hi Timothy,


    I´ll try my best. Yes it is possible but tiring ...


    I found a description and put it into the translator:


    Can I register a motorhome without a permanent address?


    Before we get to the actual topic, I'll answer a question that we get asked quite often: Is vehicle registration possible everywhere?


    In principle, you always have to register your vehicle at the registration office of your place of residence. This rule is only deviated from in exceptional cases. Examples of this are commuters or seasonal workers who have the option of registering their used cars in another district or even country. Only when a vehicle has reached the end of its useful life or is no longer needed could it be deregistered almost anywhere.


    But is it now possible to register your vehicle without a fixed place of residence?

    Registering a used car without a permanent address


    I'll be brief: Yes, it is absolutely possible and is even laid down in black and white in the Vehicle Registration Ordinance.


    Excerpt from § 46 FZV (Vehicle Registration Ordinance) paragraph 2, sentence 2.


    "If there is no domicile, no registered office, no branch or no office in Germany, the authority of the place of residence or the place of stay of an authorised recipient shall be responsible. (...)"


    The question of whether it is possible would be clarified here. But how do you go about it and what bureaucratic hurdles do you have to expect?

    These documents are needed for registration


    In order to obtain a vehicle registration without a permanent address, the following things or documents must be presented:


    Valid identification and vehicle documents (from the person entitled to receive the vehicle and you, because the vehicle will be registered in both of your names)

    Sufficient money for various fees, number plates, etc.

    Purchase contract and registration papers that you received when you bought the car.

    The EVB number from the car insurance company as proof of car insurance (no car may be registered in Germany without an EVB number!)

    A signed power of attorney and the completed form of the authorised recipient to whom the vehicle is to be registered (ideally, this person will be standing next to you when the application is made).

    The registration authority's form for direct debiting of the vehicle tax.


    Vehicle registration by authorised recipient


    An authorised representative is usually a trusted person, such as a friend or family member. This person must have a permanent residence in the country. A recognised place of residence is essential for the registration office, because as the owner of a vehicle you must theoretically be reachable by post at all times. Letters from the tax office, the police or even the court must not get lost somewhere. If the authorised recipient moves, you have to go through the procedure again. So if you ever have to pay a parking ticket, it will reach your authorised recipient as the first instance.


    By the way: Your receiving agent must agree in writing to accept your mail and forward it to you. You can find the form for authorisation to receive mail HERE. This form must be signed, of course, but at best you should have your authorised recipient with you when you go to register your vehicle at the registration office.


    Good tip: In the course of my research, I have read about many people who were turned down when applying for registration because the official did not know about the matter. Ultimately, however, you should not let yourself be put off by this, but ask the official(s) objectively and politely to look into the matter again. Most officials do not have much experience in this regard, as this case is rather a niche topic.

    Plea concerning the registration of a vehicle without a fixed address


    Fortunately, it is relatively easy to register a vehicle without a permanent address. When it comes to bureaucratic matters, you're not really used to that, are you? But definitely do some soul-searching and think carefully about who you entrust with the task of receiving your vehicle. Take all the documents and things I have listed with you and have understanding for officials who are less familiar with this matter than you are. Patience is truly a virtue in this case.


    Finally, I would like to give you something basic to take with you on your way: The system does not like self-determination. Its alarm bells ring at the slightest movement towards self-sufficiency. Even I, as a self-employed author who will soon be exchanging her flat for a van (again), often feel this. If you don't have a permanent residence and travel the world independently, you sometimes feel like a second-class citizen. However, if you want to fulfil your dream of living on your own, you must not let it get you down or divert you from your path!


    Translated with http://www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

    Hi Martin

    wow, many thanks for taking the time to research and post all this information.

    Because I have already spent quite some time exploring the possibility of doing this in UK/Northern Ireland and France, I wonder if I am getting the sense of a familiar circular dance that does not sometimes move forward:

    The EVB number from the car insurance company as proof of car insurance (no car may be registered in Germany without an EVB number!) I wonder if it will be quite complicated to make the insurance agreement in what you quite correctly call "a niche topic"....my experience from earlier research says that insurance companies do not like anything "niche".....the common response being some version of "the computer says no" ! :D

    While my wife has some distant family in Germany, I'm not sure that I would ask them or my friends there to join in such an enterprise, which I guess could be quite a stress. I had wondered previously if a dealer, in the interest of making the sale, might engage in such an arrangement? I was offered something like this in Belgium but it was somewhat unclear in the end & with a lot of money at stake.......it would need to be of course watertight.

    I will digest further

    Thanks again

    Timothy

    Good morning Timothy!


    I had this Situation in Summer. I bought a used NB Flair in Germany and thought about the possibilities to register it in Germany. The insurance is less than half than here in Austria and we have to pay import/Environment Tax which are in the case of the 2014 Flair 32% of the purchase!

    You know from the posts above that it is possible, but I asked at the Ministry of Finance here and it would be a serious offence, because you have to register a car in the EU where you have your residence, that was the information I got, may you should consider this too?

    Good luck

    Michael

    Thank you Michael. It is at least nice to know that there is at least one other that has considered this option...I am not a total outlier!!

    The situation that you describe is as I see it a little more nuanced:

    Yes you are correct that it is illegal to register a car in another country and then to drive it in your country of residence. In my case for example, if I were to drive a vehicle registered to me outside of Ireland (Germany) onto an Irish road, the vehicle could be immediately impounded and heavy penalties imposed. My friend who is not an Irish resident, could drive it here of course with me as a passenger as long as the vehicle is insured taxed etc.

    However, it is quite legal for me to own and register a car in a country other than my country of residence, as long as I don't bring it and drive it myself at 'home' in Ireland.

    For example, there are very many citizens of EU countries who own or rent longterm apartments/villas in Spain, where they quite legally own, keep and drive legally registered cars. The main point seems to be the necessity for an address for registration, correspondence etc as Martin described above for Germany. For France it is similar, where a company address, or that of a friend, will suffice as I understand it. This is a regular topic on a UK forum that I participate on.

    This is why I look at the ease of access for me to Frankfurt Hahn, or Toulouse in France where a vehicle could be kept, outside of Ireland, for example.

    Of course I have no knowledge of the situation in Austria, and the statements above are my limited understanding as a layman who has done some research.

    My sympathy on the 34% tax in Austria.....what happened to the idea of free movement of goods & services?! :rolleyes:

    Also as Martin referred to above, the institutions always offer the simple official response, and not always the best response for the individual! Some digging underneath can sometimes yield results!

    Best wishes to you

    Timothy

    Hi there to Ireland. It is really a pitty that Ireland is not really for Liners. I have been there some times, but only by car and for business.


    Back to your topic. I believe the easiest way would be to find a "best buddy" here in Germany who can register your Liner under his own name. You keep the car documents as the proof of ownership and pay for taxes and insurance. So with this you can "hire" the Liner when you want to travel. I know that in many baltic countries it is very commen to do so. They bring the car back to hometown even. If you go to e.g. Rumania, you will see many cars with German number plate.


    I don´t know if this is legal or not, but I it must be somehow as I have seen the proof many times.

    Timothy


    You said the way to go in France would be through a company...Did you check if you could to the same in Germany? Incorporate a company that then owns and registers the liner? Maybe this would be far easier because incorporating with an owner outside Germany is probably pretty common and a German company registering a car in Germany in 100% standard? But a company will come with paperwork and you might have to fill out tax declarations for the company every year


    Regards

    Adrian

    Zitat von Manne

    Hi there to Ireland. It is really a pitty that Ireland is not really for Liners. I have been there some times, but only by car and for business.


    Back to your topic. I believe the easiest way would be to find a "best buddy" here in Germany who can register your Liner under his own name. You keep the car documents as the proof of ownership and pay for taxes and insurance. So with this you can "hire" the Liner when you want to travel. I know that in many baltic countries it is very commen to do so. They bring the car back to hometown even. If you go to e.g. Rumania, you will see many cars with German number plate.


    I don´t know if this is legal or not, but I it must be somehow as I have seen the proof many times.

    Hi Nina & Manne

    I hope you enjoyed your trips here to Ireland & thank you for your thoughts. We have quite a developed trade relationship with Germany right from first we joined the EU many years ago. And quite a few large German manufacturing plants. In fact, how I met my wife, also many years ago!

    "They bring the car back to hometown even...." for sure this would be not legal here in Ireland.


    "Back to your topic. I believe the easiest way would be to find a "best buddy" here in Germany who can register your Liner under his own name. You keep the car documents as the proof of ownership and pay for taxes and insurance."

    I think that you are right. This looks like a possible pathway.....as long as the insurance contract was transparent about the main driver. I wondered if a dealer might offer this arrangement as an incentive to make a sale..... While I have some connections in Germany I am not sure that I would ask an individual to do this for me..maybe I am being too reserved.


    Happy travels!

    Timothy

    Die Vorgehensweise "guter Freund" scheint mir am sinnvollsten. Alles andere ist zu kompliziert und hat zu viele Fallstricke. Generell ist Deutschland recht kompliziert in Sachen Wohnsitz, Steuern und Versicherungen.


    The "good friend" approach seems to make the most sense to me. Everything else is too complicated and has too many pitfalls. In general, Germany is quite complicated in terms of residence, taxes and insurance.

    Hello Adrian

    thanks for your thoughts.

    Normally a company structure demands annual returns, directors, chairperson, bank account etc here also. I don't know how onerous that would be in Germany for a simple holding company .......

    When I researched this option in UK/NI the difficulty was in the insurance side...I could not find an insurer there who would accept a resident of Southern Ireland as the "proposer" of the policy, even if I owned the vehicle through a UK/NI registered business.

    The french system has a very simple structure which is exempt from annual returns, and the insurance does not seem to be a problem. And at this point looks like the most viable possibility, except for the importing issue. Life seems complicated!

    Best wishes

    Timothy

    Zitat von x-file (Frank)

    The “good friend” approach seems to make the most sense to me. Everything else is too complicated and has too many pitfalls. In general, Germany is quite complicated when it comes to residence, taxes and insurance.


    The "good friend" approach seems to make the most sense to me. Everything else is too complicated and has too many pitfalls. In general, Germany is quite complicated in terms of residence, taxes and insurance.

    Hi Frank

    thanks for your thoughts...which I think reflect the situation accurately

    best regards

    Timothy

    Hi Timothy, here some news about Italy.


    Code
    Years ago it was not even possible for a citizen residing in Italy to drive a car with a foreign license plate. Now things 
change a bit, but ist not possible for long time


    Code
    I can only give you an Italian example
Another innovation will be in force from 18 March 2022. If the person driving the vehicle with a foreign license plate is someone already resident in Italy, and not the owner, it will be necessary to bring on board a document deducing in what capacity the vehicle was granted to the driver. Furthermore, if the latter uses the car for more than 30 days (even if not continuously in a calendar year) it will be mandatory to register the title and duration of the concession with the Public Automotive Registry (PRA).

The absence of documentation, as verified by the police, will trigger a fine of 250 euros and the administrative detention of the vehicle. The driver will have the obligation to bring the documents to the police station within 30 days: in the event that he does not go to the station with the documentation or if he fails to register with the PRA, a second fine of 727 euros will be imposed.

    Maybe will not helps you, but give you an idea how thing work not fine in other Country too.

    Zitat von variokawa

    Hi Timothy, here some news about Italy.


    Code
    Years ago it was not even possible for a citizen residing in Italy to drive a car with a foreign license plate. Now things 
change a bit, but ist not possible for long time


    Code
    I can only give you an Italian example
Another innovation will be in force from 18 March 2022. If the person driving the vehicle with a foreign license plate is someone already resident in Italy, and not the owner, it will be necessary to bring on board a document deducing in what capacity the vehicle was granted to the driver. Furthermore, if the latter uses the car for more than 30 days (even if not continuously in a calendar year) it will be mandatory to register the title and duration of the concession with the Public Automotive Registry (PRA).

The absence of documentation, as verified by the police, will trigger a fine of 250 euros and the administrative detention of the vehicle. The driver will have the obligation to bring the documents to the police station within 30 days: in the event that he does not go to the station with the documentation or if he fails to register with the PRA, a second fine of 727 euros will be imposed.

    Maybe will not helps you, but give you an idea how thing work not fine in other Country too.

    Hi there

    thanks for your report from Italy!

    It is, it seems, exactly the same situation as the situation in Ireland. I think there is a consistency throughout EU on this detail.

    Therefore, the only possibility is to keep a car in a country other than the country where one is resident......or, if you want to store it for example at your home, then one will need a non-resident to deliver it for you.

    Warm regards

    Timothy